It is quite clear that Africa is still working out its internal dynamics, country by country, some faster than others. What it forces you is to realize that this is a very difficult thing. And things take time. If you look at south Sudan, everybody thought things would be perfect in two weeks.
After a tense six-and-half years, DAVID GRESSLY, the regional head of UN Mission in Sudan, now UN Mission in South Sudan, moves on next week. In this interview with BADRU MULUMBA, Gressly offers, perhaps, his last piece of advice – and an African lesson – to South Sudan, a country he says he will miss dearly:–
QN: It’s always good to give that parting shot; what next for David Gressly?
David Gressly is moving to Dakar – to Senegal, where I become the regional director for UNICEF regional office, carrying west and central Africa. So, I am covering 24 countries.
QN. Wow, that’s quite a big move.
I think it’s a good move. And the nice thing, of course, is that the countries include DRC and CAR, which border South Sudan. So I will still be in the region.
Q. Interesting. May be they will add South Sudan to the list of countries under your domain.
I will ask for that. (Laughter).
Q. So what are you taking away from South Sudan?
I would say the whole transformation of South Sudan from war, to peace to Independence. That all dynamic over six and half years, to witness and participate in that is, ultimately, a very extraordinary experience, and professionally the most rewarding.
Q. Any personal lessons?
Based on my work here I feel confident that – there are so many challenges that came over in the last six and half years and there were so many different things we had to do to adapt to those challenges.
It gives one the courage that whatever the world throws at you in the future you can handle it. It has been a wonderful challenge, one that I learned a great deal from. Every year was different. The challenges were different, which kept it very much alive. It was extraordinary. I very much enjoyed. It was always exciting, always something new, unexpected, and always something rewarding.
Q. Looking back, you always rode in a basic green Land Cruiser Prado Tx for quite long (even as the entire UN system rode in Nissan Patrols]. You could have done with a very [expensive] car. Is David Gressly this very simple guy?
Well, it was a nice little car. It was good enough for the job. It was nothing special about the car. But it was functional and I felt no compulsion to change it. I changed it when I moved over to the UN Mission, when I had to leave it behind at OCHA. I still see that car around town. I liked the car.
Q. So you are more into functionality.
Use what works. We don’t need to spend a lot of money on those kinds of things. What we should spend money on is delivery of services to the people – that was always my priority.
Q. Did that functional attitude play a role in your ability to cope with the challenges that you found here?
I have always been very practical. I have been very operational wherever I have been. I have no problem with getting my hands dirty, my boots dirty to get something done. I mean I grew up on a farm. And that’s what you did. The family depended on every one doing just that, and hard work. So I have never been afraid of hard work, or getting my hands dirty, either. I have always enjoyed working in the field.
Getting out in the field, for me is as good as a vocation, is a mission, to see what is happening and try to push things along faster. How can we do it better, how can we do it faster? For me the opening question has always been delivery. How can we deliver faster? I am a fairly practical person.
Q. What kind of farm was this, where you grew up?
In the Midwest, United States, my father had about a thousand acres. We raised cattle. We raised maize, soybean, sorghum.
Q. What I know is that, it takes quite a lot for one’s mindset to move from the Midwest [and think] international. When did you decide to make the big move, that you were going onto the international stage?
My parents were in Germany. My father was in the army, as everyone was at that time. Just after I was born, my first two years were actually in Germany. I was actually there for the Suez crisis and for the Hungarian Revolution. It is back that far. And my parents really enjoyed that experience and we grew up listening to their stories about living overseas. And then as I went to university I started looking at an international career as a future option. I am very happy about that choice. It led me first to Kenya, where I met my wife, and to other countries, Mauritania, Nigeria, Cameroon, Cote D’voire, and India.
I joined the UN the first time in 1993, when I was in Nigeria. I enjoyed working with the United Nations. I had enjoyed working previously with the Peace Corps — as a Peace Corps Director in Mauritania, as a volunteer in Kenya. That was a very good experience because it forced you to get out to the field. I learnt very early on how to move and work in East Africa, anywhere, and later Mauritania and West Africa. That experience did me well. I think moving over to the UN, to UNICEF, was also very good. From the work experience point of view, Nigeria is very operational to work. But also from a cross-cultural point of view it’s not just an American culture and a global culture, but there is always diversity. I find that so refreshing, the opportunity to work with people from all over the world just as the United Nations should be. So you get both the experience and a strong international interaction. That makes the work much more enjoyable. I have had three children work over in South Sudan over the years – whenever they finished secondary school they all came and worked here for six months or so. And they want to come back. My daughter is already designing a resort for South Sudan. It’s really nice.
Q. So the Dad will be in West Africa, the kid will be in the East?
Something like that (Laughs). One daughter is in Australia right now. One son in Afghanistan and another daughter is going to Australia. And another son will be in the states. So we will be on four or five continents.
Q. Hasn’t it been hard on you – with the family?
My family is extraordinarily supportive. And I have an opportunity from time to time to go back and be with my family. I spend, sometimes two weeks, sometimes three weeks, with them. It’s always a good quality time. I take them to school, do all the usual sports and things like that. And then I come back and continue with the work here. They believe the work I have been involved with here is very important. That also made it easier I think.
Q. When you first landed in Africa, it was in Kenya, right?
Actually, I landed in Liberia, Monrovia, but it was on my way to Kenya. Effectively, Kenya was my first time to Africa.
Q. Did you, at that point, have any regrets, that may be you made the wrong decision?
Not at all. In Kenya I did live for four years. I never travelled back to the US. I never travelled outside Kenya, except for one trip to Tanzania. I made two phone calls. Back then there was no email, fax, telephone services. You had to be more patient. It really forced one to settle into life in another country and become a part of another country. I was extraordinarily comfortable in Kenya when I was there. It was hard to leave, just like it is hard to leave South Sudan.
Q. Twenty-five years in Africa: you have seen it more than a lot of outsiders. How do you compare Africa today to the Africa of yesterday?
In many ways it is the same Africa. It’s a continent that has struggled for quite sometime, in some ways successfully, like we have seen here, in South Sudan, others that have gone off the right path, like Cote d’voire, for several years.
It is quite clear that Africa is still working out its internal dynamics, country by country, some faster than others. What it forces you is to realize that this is a very difficult thing. And things take time. If you look at south Sudan, everybody thought things would be perfect in two weeks. That was never going to be possible, particularly in a country that has gone through much conflict over five decades. It’s going to take time. One year is not going to be enough, five…..it’s gonna take twenty to thirty years to really overcome the legacy that the south Sudanese have faced over the last half a century.
I think being able to take a long term perspective on this you realize that you play a role that would have some importance over a small period of that time. That is hard for people to accept; that not everything can be fixed overnight. But for me it’s natural and it does take time. When you are working on something like this, you understand that someone will come in later to continue that work. I encourage people to look long term. In the long term I am optimistic about South Sudan. I understand that there will be some difficult days in the future. But I am optimistic that south Sudanese, in general, and Africa in particular, will work out the internal dynamics and get themselves on a very strong development path.
Q. What do you think are some of the solutions, the things Africa, South Sudan included, could have done to move forward faster?
Unfortunately, these are very country specific. It’s hard to get a general answer. But in many ways some of what we saw, I think, was inevitable. The boundaries were artificial. At the time of independence these were not natural boundaries formed over a period of time but by those colonial country powers. Therefore, the internal mechanics are going to take a while to work out. It is true on every planet. Look at European history to see how long it took. It took an extremely long period of time – from the fall of the Roman Empire to the fall of the Berlin Wall – that is 1500 years of trying to work things out internally. Africa is moving along faster in that regard. I am not surprised [Africa] is taking time. I am not surprised there were difficult days. Each country has got to work its relationship internally based on the ethnicity. It’s impossible to import a constitution or a government system from another country wholesale. This has to be specific to the needs of the country. That is the big lesson for South Sudan – find a new constitution that is appropriate for South Sudan, for the people of South Sudan based upon its own cultural dynamics. In fact, I think South Sudan will be quite successful.
Q. I was actually coming to that. When it comes to borrowing, especially as regards to the constitution, you may have some ideas of what kind of constitution this should be.
The important thing is for everyone to take time that the transition period provides to have a very healthy debate, to come to a consensus over what that should be. I am not sure I have a prescription for that. I will just be another outside saying, May be you should try this or that. While I may have some ideas I really think it is the people here who have to come up with that, through an inclusive process that truly listens to people in terms of their aspirations and fears, to design a political regime that actually works. That is the challenge. I think it is the inclusiveness and willingness to accept a process that draws on people’s aspirations.
Q. And [failure of] this, you think was one reason why a lot of African countries found problems right after independence?
Well, some countries tried the American system, some tried the UK system. It’s difficult to figure out what works in a given country because the dynamics are, of course, different for each one. And I think those times where they just tried to replicate one system purely into one country probably has not been a very successful one. I mean the elements of the different approaches were appropriate, but they have to be customized to a given country, and the only people who can answer that are the people of a given country. So I think a good healthy debate on that is very welcome right now. That consensus will strengthen the constitution in place.
Q. What do you anticipate will be the UN input in the constitution-making process in the next four-five years?
We will be in position to provide technical advise, draw our experiences from others. Part of that debate is just looking at how others have handled different kinds of situations that resemble south Sudan. I think the advise on the inclusiveness of the process is part of that. It will certainly be supportive in nature and not directive. It’s South Sudanese and the leaders who have to take that responsibility.
Q. Going back, what drove you to UNICEF?
UNICEF is a good organization; treats people well. But one point in their mandate, working to improve the conditions of children all over the world, is a very attractive mandate…increasing child survival, educational opportunities, and providing legal protection for children. These are important issues. In the region where I am going to there are issues in all of these areas. I am going to take up that challenge and continue our support to children to an average of 24 countries to continue the challenge of improving the lives of children.
Q. Here, in South Sudan, do you foresee a lost generation because people missed out on education?
There already is. There are two generations that have lost out on educational opportunities. The question is not to lose another generation. While good work has been done to improve enrollment of children in school and numbers have gone up considerably, from about 300,000 children to now 1.2-1.3 million — that’s good news, but — there are still many who are not in school, and even many more who are not in secondary school. Until a full system is in place for everybody to have that opportunity, then you continue to have, if not a whole generation lost, a large percentage of one lost. South Sudan has the resources for this – to invest in the children so that they have good opportunities in the future. Education plays an important aspect as well, and can transform the south in many, many ways to support development, but also to support a reduction in conflict.
Q. What can be done to ensure that generations already lost don’t become a problem in the future?
You can provide literacy…vocational training, extend opportunities in agriculture, so that people get employed in agriculture. That is a better way to deal with that because to educate a child takes many, many years. Opportunities should be available so that [the lost generations] also can benefit from the peace.
Q. Lastly, [growing up] did you foresee that you’d climb this high?
It came as a pleasant surprise when I was offered the position. I am looking forward to the challenge. I take each task at a time and put myself in each task fully. I look forward to doing the same in Dakar.
Q. Not worried of starting all over again?
I have done that many times already. It’s no problem.
Q. Your first job, what did you do?
My first job as an undergraduate was in Kenya. I was a business advisor with a cooperative in Nyanza Area, south Nyanza. I worked with the ministry of Cooperatives Development. It had about 2000 cooperative members. I was advising them to help improve their management systems in their cooperatives.
It was a very interesting job. I got to work with Oginga Odinga, at the time who was the Chairman of the Cooperative Board. It was interesting because he was at that time a political element. So, seeing both the business side and the political side at a young age was very, very interesting.
Q. And that set the (African) agenda for you
It gave me a confirmation that that was what I wanted to do. But I realized I wanted to improve my management and business skills so I went for an MBA and then returned to Africa in Mauritania.
Q. And your parting advice to a young South Sudanese just starting a new job, or leaving school?
The main advice is: Celebrate the peace and consolidate that peace in the years to come so that future generations may never know what young people today were meant to live through to achieve what they have achieved. Make the world safer for future generations and children to live and to prosper.
QUICK FACTS
Studied economics with a bias in International Agricultural Development, and has an MBA
